Old Firm Cyber Rammy

SCROLL DOON TAE THE BOTTOM AND READ THEM IN IN WHAT WOULD NORMALY BE REVERSE ORDER … they won’t make MUCH more sense that way but it helps a wee bit….

Name: Fat Eck (your stunned editor)

Comments:
Davva,

Your fellow celtic fans coming on with comments like “Tell all the hunz ye know, we’re off tae Seville and they’re no’ I can stomach quite easily. In fact, compared to my usual Saturday night diet, it’s pleasantly digestible. I’m sure as pretentiously literate a person as yourself will feel these guys are doing more to embarrass your club than Inverness Caley Thistle ever could but to me they’re just having a plain old, narrow-minded, pop at the fitbaw team they love to hate. Just as I do when I’m calling celtic/smell-tic/sellik childish names. Just as Man U fans do when they’re slating scousers etc etc … It’s the kind of thing which keeps the game alive. As long as no-one’s getting into the sick-tarian stuff then I’m happy to see the banter flying.

What I can’t stand is feedback like your own little example. It’s sickeningly depressing because you’ve obviously spent a lot of time trying to set a tone which makes your revisionist view of football history seem fact-based and reasoned. This is low, low stuff, mate. You obviously come from a world where competitions only count when celtic have them in the bag and every achievement by the opposition is automatically written off.

You’ve come onto a Rangers web-site - one you obviously haven’t been reading for too long or else you’d know Gers@OpenFootball condemned the ORANGE away strip more vehemently (oh, and of course with more “glee and alacrity”) than any celtic fan ever could; don’t try and tell me when I should be embarrassed for my club. - and you’re not happy with me mentioning the fact my team is top of the league and odds-on to win the treble. Right fascist little attitude that, isn’t it, Davva.

Okay, if celtic win tomorrow the championship is up for grabs again but, at this point in time, Rangers are simply, factually, unavoidably TOP OF THE FLIIPIN’ LEAGUE and looking good for a domestic clean-sweep. “That boast is not yours to make” - lovely wee, sound-bitey, commanding end to your spiel, mate but totally nonsensical: Who the hell’s “boasting”??!! We’ve lost one, drawn three and won four out the last eight Old Firm games - how can that make us anything OTHER than the best Old Firm team?? And, if it isn’t for an old firm fan to boast about an old firm team’s achievements then who does??

I think I already pointed out that a Celtic UEFA Cup win would outshine a Rangers treble and put serious pressure on Big Eck next season - think that was the whole point of my rant. Oh, and I don’t think you went far enough with your litle European football history lesson - You missed out the fact that 67 was the first Champions Cup final which didn’t feature either Real Madrid or Benfica, that celtic were the first team to win it with an entirely home-grown team and that they’re the only one to win it with guys born within a 30-mile radius of their stadium .. or that Sandro Mazzola, who scored Inter’s goal from the penalty spot, found himself playing on the pitch which his father, Valentino, played his last game on - a friendly for Torino against Benfica - before he and his “Granata” team-mates were killed in the Superga air crash of 1949. Oh, and here’s a nice, wee omen - from a Rangers fan, for free - for your team’s chances on May 21st 2003: The 1967 final was the first and, so far, only Euro final to be played at the Estadio Nacional in Lisbon so, with this year’s UEFA cup final (only the sixth to be played as a one-off game - that’s unless you’re counting the old Fairs cup, which had the 1964 and 65 finals over just one match) being the first ever played at the Stadio Olimpico in Seville you’re looking good … especially with all the “V”stuff too!

If I was going OTT (Govan forbid) I could also mention that every club celtic played on their way to the 67 final had never, and still have never featured in ANY European final (that’s unless you want to count Vojvodina Novi Sad’s 1977 Mitropa Cup win but, well, who the hell’s heard of the “Mitropa Cup”?? - probably only European football experts like me and you, Davva) but that may sound churlish - it may sound as if I was trying to denegrate what was clearly Scottish Football’s greatest ever achievement.

See, Davva, I realise that no-one wins the Champions Cup by accident - and, anyway, the teams you beat on your run to the 70 final and your runs to the 72 and 74 semi-finals proved beyond even the most childish doubt that Jock Stein was a genius - I only wish that guys like yourself could just be happy with that instead of feeling the need to denegrate - by denying it’s actually happening - what little Rangers have achieved this season so far. I mean, that really IS bitter, mate.

Throw in all the polysyllabic terms you like but it’s where you place certain words that shows you up, Dav - “O’Neill will CERTAINLY stay” reeks of desperation. Christ, I’ve admited for long enough that the guy’s a great manager and that, even if he leaves on the 22nd May, winning the Uefa Cup will mean his legacy far outlives his leaving, but still you’re pancicking that the Rangers support might have something to be happy about. When did you suddenly learn something that the rest of Scottish footbal’ls been ignorant of for the last year of protracted, convoluted contract negotiations between O’neill and your board?

“Yes, you may win a domestic treble against a DISTRACTED Celtic team” - what the hell are you so worried about? You’re bloody neurotic, mate - getting all sorts of excuses in lest you lose tomorrow (which i’ll be surprised if you do, by the way) or end the season trophyless. Give yourself a break - be happy with what you have. And the championship is far from over. Just don’t try to make out you or your team aren’t pi**ed-off to be losing the domestic race … at PRESENT!

“Rangers, sadly, have become much too embroiled in the domestic situation for their own good”??!! This is a belter and reflects an outbreak of serious amnesia among the insane element of the celtic suport. What we’re to glean from this is that when Celtic win the championship, as they have done the past two years while continuing their 20-year trend trend of generally exiting Europe before Rangers, it’s a championship worth winning but when rangers win stuff in Scotland or even dare to go top of the league then the SPL suddenly doesn’t count anymore and we make an arse of ourselves by trying to win it.

Celtic have the bigger profle in Europe? Yeah, I would think so - to people of a certain age group or with a certain knowledge of the game but you’re kind of ignoring the fact that the Champions League is where you win real European profile these days - we’ve played in it five times buddy - you’ve managed it just once. Don’t get me wrong, our record once there is shit but it’s still infinitely better than your own. Also don’t think for a second I’m claiming I wouldn’t kill to see Rangers in the UEFA Cup final - I’m thoroughly jealous - but please don’t tell me “Celtic are now returning to a position on the European stage which is inheritently theirs” - obviously you meant inherently (I won’t pull you up on mis-spulling as I’m as bad myself) but I think when you’re only playing in your third European final EVER (they’ve been going since 1956 you know), then your definition of the word is as bad as your spelling of it.

By your logic, Davva, Rangers will claim their rightful place as Scotland’s European force if we reach the Uefa cup final of 2005. We won the CWC in 72 and we’re the first Scottish team to get to a European final at all … no, wait a minute - Hibs were Scotland’s first ever Euro reps - they got to the semis of teh 55/56 European Cup … surely they are INHERENTLY our top Euro team, with the biggest profile etc. Come on - if you’re gonnae go back to 1970 and 67, we might as well go back another decade further.

Davva, you try to enjoy your moment and, if we do win the SPL, then we’ll try to enjoy ours. I couldn’t live with myself if I tried to say celtic’s UEFA cup success was anything other than great - don’t you demean yourself by trying to chip away at stuff Rangers haven’t even won yet. When O’neill won the treble he was a god - now McLeish is an also-ran when he does the same thing? Doesn’t realy work, does it.

It’s a tense time. You’re all worried you’ll win nothing in 2002/2003 despite playing so brilliantly in Europe all season and we’re all worried well get no credit for winning the treble simply because celtic won the Uefa cup. But the only thing we’ve won so far is the CIS Cup - Celtic have won admirers all over Europe with their UEFA Cup run. The only thing celtic CAN’T win at this moment is the CIS Cup and the Scottish Cup. The ONLY thing we can’t win is the UEFA cup.

The future we know nothing about but lets not try and re-write history to suit ourselves and insult others, Davva - that’s just pathetic.
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Name: Davva

Comments:
As a Celtic fan I enjoy reading your thoughts, Eck, and most of them are usually well reasoned out though, understandably, partial towards your own team. I do, however, feel a childish element creeps in with demeaning references to “c”eltic but, this aside, you have been praiseworthy - albeit grudgingly - towards Celtic’s European feats this season and, more importantly, the impact this will undoubtedly have on Rangers and McLeish. If Celtic do go on and win in Seville, O’Neill will certainly stay, with the promise of much greater financial backing from the Celtic board, and, secondly, Rangers fans will not tolerate another Viktoria Zizkov, no matter if the domestic treble sits in the Ibrox trophy room. Celtic are on the verge of something very, very big - and so are Rangers but in an altogether different way. Add to this a Celtic championship win this season and Rangers could be staring at long years in the wilderness - like we were in the 90’s.

Celtic, despite dosmetic problems due to the greater emphasis placed on Europe, are the most noted Scottish team in Europe. The incomparable atmosphere of Celtic Park, the forging of links with other high-profile European clubs and the European successes of earlier and recent seasons have all combined to raise the profile of this great club and one time foremost club team in Europe. You may want to forget about 1967 but no-one in Europe does - we were the first non-Latin team to win the European Cup and this paved the way for non-Latin teams to practically dominate the European Cup up until the mid 1980’s. So Celtic are held with much esteem in European Cup football and although Rangers are highly regarded too, Celtic’s profile is surely the greater. Winning 50 domestic championships may be significant to Rangers fans but there the significance ends.

Celtic are now returning to a position on the European stage which is inheritently theirs - and O’Neill knows this. Rangers, sadly, have become much too embroiled in the domestic situation for their own good in recent years and the saddening endorsing of an Orange football top (don’t tell me that thousands of Rangers fans bought ‘tangerine’ tops while displaying such glee and alacrity) only pampered to the basest instincts of their fans and demeaned a very proud club for financial reasons only.

Yes, you may win a domestic treble against a distracted Celtic team and yes you may also kidd yourselves that you are the best team in Scotland - but in the light of what we are doing I can live with that. Now, next season is altogether different matter. Will McLeish and Rangers go further than Celtic and O’Neill in Europe? Both will be in Qualifying rounds in July. Will McLeish win the championship next season - with the added pressure of securing the one guaranteed Group 1 stage place for season 04/05? If he can then you can realistically talk about progress but, please, no more talk of Rangers being the better Old Firm team at the present time. That boast is not yours to make.

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Name: Del

Comments:
Just when Celtic go and have one of their worst domestic challenges in Scotland this season, they go and surpass themselves in Europe. I can’t believe that while the tims glory season cries of quadruple champions is slowly and systematically getting derailed, and the Teddy Bears are putting the finishing touches to a domestic clean sweep of trophies, they still claim the upper hand by possibly claiming the UEFA cup crown. The only saving grace is that the UEFA cup run has put up a huge smoke screen to the situation at Celtic Park. The spectre of European glory is clouding them somewhat of the demise of the O’Neill influence at Celtic Park. Having excelled himself in his first season, spaces have appeared in the trophy room every season thereafter. On top of their team’s tired and jaded look all season, there have been many negative reports from Celtic park throughout this Championship challenge. Aside from the press digs, you had the O’Neill contract, no replacement for Lubo, fat cat ticket allocations, right up to the McLeod situation - the tims have had to endure many knocks this season. Though understandably happy, at the moment, I believe that most will be quietly seething about Celtics’ domestic progress this season. What will probably burn the tims more is that it is one of the poorest Rangers teams in years that have reduced them to being second best (in most cases) in Scotland this year. I, for one was half-hoping that Celtic go all the way in UEFA just to keep the premonition that ‘all is well’ at Celtic, but, on the other hand, that might be just too bitter a pill to swallow.
Celtic have raised the bar this season with their efforts in Europe, which could be good for big Eck. It may set the challenge that winning everything in Scotland might not be acceptable anymore, and that you now have to that bit further now.
As you say, give him a bit of time. Though, he is on the road to duplicated O’Neill’s record at Celtic Park, with Rangers so far, so lets wait and see.
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Name: King Kelly

Comments:
the only reason celtic will not lift the league title is because our minds are on bigger things - murray bankrolled the gers for years to buy second rate players using second rate managers, MoN has showed that the gers ‘class’ players of old such as fat gazza and diver laudrup might be able to beat aberdeen & dundee every other week but when it came to europe , they weren’t up to standard.

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Name: Niall

Comments:
Well Eck

another great piece from you about our great euro adventure (far more interesting than what’s on the celtic page) and all you get from it are stupid comments from celtic fans (although they possibly still pished, (i am!!!) so getting PC is an achievement. Anyway, keep up the good work, although the absence of any fellows blues comments is noticeable!!! Are we the only 2 who can chat sensibly!!

As for sunday, your right who knows, but also, to a certain extent, who cares (who ever would have thought that would be said!) We both know that this season will be decided for both of us on May 21st!!

Keep up the good work,

N
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Name: The opTIMisTIC Bhoy

Comments:
Rangers in a European final? Aye, when we’re visiting other planets. Tell all the hunz ye know, we’re off tae Seville and they’re no’
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Name: Jim McAra

Comments:
Listen the SPL is a protection racket for Rangers condoned by the SFA. Gifted 9 penalties and 11 red cards for teams playing against you this year in the SPL and 2 in the SLC thats why your pish in Europe.
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Name:

Comments:
Hello Hun. Peace.
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Name: hoopy hound

Comments:
wake up and read the papers
how many attempts did your club have to do something in europe? failed miserably! there are lots of reasons for this all wearing blue or “tangerine” shirts
seville her we come
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Name: jo kerr

Comments:
One thing you seem to forget. We do it without the help of black clad officials. You lot were always a big fish in scotland but when you go outside it you become mortals ie when you kick a player he kicks you back, not like at home where the ref protects you by depleting any aggressive nasty players who would dare to think that they could match you in aggression. your player of the century says it all John Greig, couldnae kick his ain arse but could kick anything in the opposing team specially if they had hoops on. never mind you’re really happy in scotland
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Name: Fat Eck

Comments:
So any time you win a match it doesn’t count as “out-playing”? Fair enough, John - I’m sure you’ll apply that logic to every celtic victory? Or maybe yer just so biased ye can’t admit your team ever lost a match.

And that’s about to change? Why do people insist on making stupid predictions as a way of showing some kind of loyalty to their team?? You’ve no more idea than me of who’ll win on Sunday, John … but, as long as you’re happy …

Fat Eck
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Name: John Watt

Comments:
You’ve outplayed Celtic ? Under MoN, I’ve yet to see it. You’ve been very lucky and that’s about to change.