FatEck.co.uk

News and comment on Rangers FC.

1. delbhoy 12.17.03 / 4am

   Did I read correctly - the genius of Larsson AND O’Neill acknowledged by a Rangers fan?? It truly is the season of goodwill to all.

   However, the drugs clearly kicked in when you went on to describe McLeish as the up and coming genius of the managerial game. Ooooh, you have been reading too much tabloid tosh, haven’t you? He is now entering the phase in which he lost all the ground he had gained in his last two jobs - bringing in his own players and trying to create a team with them. Track record so far on his acquisitions doesn’t look promising with the superstars of Capucho and Emerson (I won’t even bother mentioning the rest).

   I know you WANT hime to be great, and the media are still helping with the illusion, but he’s not. And he won’t be. You appointed what you could afford in the circumstances, and you’ll see, as we did, that finances play a roll in all of this.

   You need to pray that the injury fairy doesn’t visit Klos this Christmas, or there really will be a fight for second place this season.
2. Stuart 12.17.03 / 8am

   Damn - I hate to agree with one of the Paraniod People, but I just can’t see the mark of genius on McLeish. Sure, he did extremely well in revitalising a squad which had been completely demoralised by the appalling mis-management of Advocaat (Question - before Rangers, how many top-flight trophies had this man won in his managerial career?), but I think that too many of us had such low expectations of both squad and new manager when he took over that we have been too effusive in our praise.

   Yes, he has won every domestic trophy that was realistically available to him, and no one can take that away from him, but look a little closer & his record is slightly less impressive.

   League Cup Semi Final - Rangers won by 2-1 in xtra time, thanks to a wonder-goal from Konterman of all people. Not quite a fluke result, but this was not a sea-change in the balance of power in Scottish football, just a much-needed shot in the arm for the blue half of Glasgow.

   Scottish Cup Final - Famous 3-2 win, but achieved despite celtic having to play Sutton in defence due to injury crisis. Fantastic fun, but still noe firm evidence of sustained improvement.

   League campaign 2002/03 - Won by Rangers because of 2 major factors - Ferguson having a magical, once-in-a-career season & celtic’s involvement in the UEFA cup (also Rangers’ early exit from same competition). Despite this, it was onlt goal difference which decided the outcome.

   Look at McLeish’s record in Old Firm matches :

   Played - 10 Won - 4 Drawn - 2 Lost - 3

   Doesn’t look TOO bad, except that 3 out of his 4 victories were achieved in the cup competitions - a pleasing diversion for Rangers fans, but the League is what counts. His league record is W 1, D 3, L3, which is simply not good enough. In these clashes, celtic have been able to achieve the result they require, whether it be a win or simply a draw. Nothing seems to depend on Rangers’ performance - it seems that if celtic want to win, then they will. Incidentally, this is a continuation of a trend which began at the start of o’neill’s reign of terror - in the 17 OF matches played since then, celtic have scored in every match (this MUST be a record). This is indicative not only of his managerial abilities, but also of Rangers’ hopeless failure to at least stop them from scoring, never mind actually beat them.

   I won’t go into McLeish’s European record, except to say that it speaks for itself…….

   Quite simply, McLeish has to get things right next year. We need success in Europe (i.e. 2nd stage CL (even a competitive fight for 2nd place in the group would be an improvement) or UEFA quarter/semi-final), success over celtic (including victory at the Breezeblock Palace), combined with the League Championship. If he can’t provide this (or at least prove that the team is moving in the right direction to achieve this the following season), then he should go.

   Finally, let’s stop the excuses that he hasn’t had any money to spend. Of course he hasn’t has as much as Advocaat, but was given
3. Charles 12.17.03 / 10am

   Just a few observations and questions, firstly I believe I
4. Stuart 12.17.03 / 4pm

   Charles (aka Paranoid Pat)..

   Apologies for my dreadful arithmetical error - it should have read “Played 10, Won 4, Drawn 3, Lost 3″. I’ll make a deal - I’ll buy a calculator if you buy abook on the correct use of punctuation…!

   As for Fat Eck using a lower case “c” or your example of using the word “Sellick”, he has previously been happy to describe this as “childish” - in fact, something we are ALL guilty of when we discuss football. It means nothing, it’s just a cheap jibe at the opposition, a bit of fun which is sadly lacking at both Ibrox (look at the team) & Celtic Park (all that route 1, Krazy Gang stuff is seriously boring).

   Even if Fartin o’Feel & Hensick Larsh*te (God, aren’t these Huns immature?)stay at parkhead after this season, their days will still be well & truly numbered (Larsson due to his age, O’Neill due to his growing realisation that celtic are too small for the BIG European stage he craves. Therefore, our plan is simply to ride out the storm until the current celtic squad disbands, and hope we are in a position to capitalise (much like celtic have done since the demise of the 9-in-a-row team of Gough, Laudrup, McCall, McCoist, etc). This is also a realisation that, in the short-term, it is going to be almost impossible for Rangers to achieve the domestic superiority & comparitive European success enjoyed by Celtic over the last few years. The folly of the short-term view has been shown by the failure of Ostenstad, Emerson, Capucho etc this season.
5. Rusty 12.17.03 / 4pm

   delbhoy,

   Allow yourself a double measure of goodwill from Rangers fans who can rightly acknowledge the merits of Larsson and O’Neill. I’m sorry if you only get to hear from, or choose to listen to, bitter types on the subject.

   That said, I’ve yet to read something positive you’ve written about anything Rangers, or even slightly critical of your own team. Perhaps you might tell me I’m wrong with some examples….

   I’ll eventually throw off my Daily Record-tinted glasses and realise that McLeish was downright lucky to win anything/everything at all, but you might be able to guess my question about managers who fancied having Emerson in their squad?

   And Charles, lighten up man! Surely you’re not still having a go at Eck for the use of sellick/smelltic/Paranoia Park? I’m sure you’re old and wise enough to realise there is no malice behind it. Are you really as quick to pick apart similar displays of schoolboy humour from Smel…..Celtic fans? (See, I fought it and won!)

   And who would you like to explain the “dodgy pitch” excuse to you? Maybe you should ask Derek Johnstone, Hugh Keevins, or one of the old guys who phone Radio Clyde for someone to talk to. I know the pitch had nothing to do with a terrible performance, and without wishing to speak for him, I’ve yet to hear Eck use it in mitigation.
6. Fat Eck - your absentee Editor 12.17.03 / 7pm

   Lads - sorry I’ve been missing all the fun (some sooperb cyber rammies!)and thanks to those who’ve been sticking up for me in my absence (Sob … I really was quite touched … sniff). Hope to get a longer rant on tomorrow night and a decent reply (well, a lengthy one anyroads),to aw yer quality feedback, posted on Thursday evening (GMT). In the meantime, just a note to Charles to say … “yeah but, no but, yeah but, no but - SHURRRUP - I never even said that about the lower case “r”s anyway and if Michaela says I did then don’t listen to ‘er coz she’s a lezzer what fancies Sharon and Dominic’s mum says she caught them snoggin so it must be true …”

   … erm … does anyone else here actually watch “little Britain?” BBC2 … BBC3?… Monday nights? Nah? - okay (blushes)… well - what I was just saying there is that the most severe accusation yet made against my portly person on this esteemed website is that I did once, in the past, make complaining noises about CELTIC fans’ usage of a lower case initial when referring to God’s own Football Club, The Rangers. Well, I didnae … ever … honest.

   Talk soon (in non-TV anorak terms)

   Eck
7. Charles 12.18.03 / 7am

   C’mon now Eck,
   You’re realy Rusty and Stuart in disguise aren’t you c’mon admit it. And to your alter ego Stuart, you totaly missed the point of rambling paranioa.
8. Rusty 12.18.03 / 11am

   Charles,

   Are you calling me a fat editor??? Alright, we both love Rangers, both enjoy “Little Britain” of a Monday night, and occassionally try to reject your more sour-faced accusations and pronouncements, but suggesting Eck might manage a reasonable impersonation of my 12 stone frame!!!!!

   (Nae offence Eck!)
9. delbhoy 12.18.03 / 4pm

   Rusty,

   I’m offended - not only have I made several references to our cack goalkeepers, MON’s inability to spot a good good keeper and our decade of misery, I would like it on record that I also think we have a pretty poor Under 14s team who failed to sweep up domestically.

   And….bringing things right up to the minute - I don’t like the fact that our Russian Roulette approach to the CIS Cup has again handed McLeish a great opportunity for a cup. Should keep him in the job for at least another year though - silver lining and all that…
10. Fat Eck - your erstwhile Editor 12.18.03 / 5pm

    Absolutely no offence taken, Rusty, but I am seriously concerned to hear about your debilitating anorexia. From what you write, you’re at least 5 stone short of the normal weight for a Scottish male adult and in need of emergency treatment. Luckily, I’m a kebab doctor, white coat stained with chilli sauce, and can recommend a few hundred of the best donner shops in the West of Scotland (”salad and sauce - everything on, please!”). We’ll discuss it in more detail next time we’re swapping identities.

    Yup, Chas, me ole mucker, good to see you’re at last getting into the real vibe here on Gers@openfootie, getting less defensive and a bit more self-deprecating, playing up the paranoia stereotype which blights the hooped hordes by taking it to a ridiculous level - There’s no way I could EVER make as much sense as Stuart and Rusty (although Stuart’s arithmetic is on a par with my own. Shit - did I say “Pars”?)! If we keep working on you, Charles, it’ll be just a matter of weeks ’til you’re on here to moan to us about the CCCCCeltic board’s lack of investment in the miracle worker who is Martin O’Neill.

    See, that’s what’s most obvious from reading up and down the feedback replies on this page - Some Rangers fans are harder on Rangers than a lot of Celtic fans would be … or COULD be (criticism from those who purport to love you is hardest to swallow) And, talking to a few of the reasonable seltik boys at work, they end up being harder on their own players and board than I can. Christ, when Lennon was being booed by his own supporters I found myself singing the praises of the wee shit - and that’s NOT an oxymoronic statement because, for any of these discussions to go anywhere, we all have to realise there’s a difference between talking straight FOOTBALL and talking about our blinkered allegiances.

    Stuart and I can have arguments all night about the various pluses and minuses of McLeish but the minute we, as Rangers fans, say anything critical about Celtic then it’s taken as a straight-forward slagging. Don’t get me wrong, on this site it usually IS a straight-forward slagging of Celtic but I will always try and qualify what I say and, 90% of the time I do base my opinions on what I genuinely think, rather than what I think will annoy Celtic fans or appease Gers punters. If things get emotional on the pitch then, as this is a fans’ site, I’ll get emotional in my rants - and the onus is on any Celtic fan who wants to come on and be taken seriously to at least see past all my petty name-calling.

    A few Bhoys and ghirls coming onto the site and giving it “way-hey - yoose got gubbed” is perfectly acceptable - that’s cool. What scares me is when Celtic fans like yerself, Charles, come on and get all serious and genuinely indignant about the fact a Rangers fan is daring to find some reason to HOPE his team can do better. There’s a real worry for me when I get reasonably articulate Celic folk expressing bona fide distress because I’m not being hard enough on Rangers when they lose or because I’m daring to even hint that I might not think Celtic are the greatest, most perfect institution on the planet. That’s bitter.

    I write a tiny wee piece which basically says “the season’s over by Rangers’ standards and, even if we win at Parkhead, it’ll probably mean nothing until NEXT season”. I’m saying “just hang in there, Gers and stay as close to Celtic as you can in 2003/2004″ - I even give the article a headline which takes the piss out my own desperation to get this season done and over with - that’s as plain an admission of defeat as there can possibly be but STILL that’s not enough for you, Charles??!! Your view is so skewered by your own bitterness you can’t actually understand I’ve answered all your questions before you even asked them. I NEVER - ANYWHERE - used the plastic pitch as an excuse and not only think Murray Park means Rangers have no excuses for the defeat by Dunfermline but the fact that McLeish prefers ball-on-the-deck football should mean the plastic pitch gave us an ADVANTAGE over Dunfermline. We lost. We deserved to. What more do ye want?

    O’Neill and Larsson leaving? Yup - maybe it’ll never happen but it seems pretty obvious to most other people reading my wee rant that, when discusing what will happen next season while we’re still only in the December of THIS season, that I’m CLUTCHING AT STRAWS!!! You really need to chill out, Charles - start kicking the people who’re actually attacking you, rather than the corpses lying on the turf with a white flag in their hands.

    Jezzus, on this page of feedback you even have Stuart albut writing off everything McLeish has ever achieved at Rangers and telling us Celtic always win when they want to (BTW, seeing as Celtic won’t have won a single trophy for the best part of two years now and McLeish won the treble last season, I find that a bit OTT, Stu) and yet all you can do is PULL HIM UP FOR HIS BAD ARITHMETIC!!! Surely he’s singing your tune, Charles?? Nah! Because he’s a f**ing Rangers fan you only see what you want to see. You have to chill, Charles - let yer intelligence rise above the blinkers - It’ll make you happier for a start. Your team are quality - enjoy it while it lasts (and, before ye panic, “while it lasts” is just a referemce to the inevitably cyclical nature of the Old Firm’s domination of the Scottish game - when rangers get back on top, it’ll be just a matter of time til Celtic rally … and so on).

    Anyway, back to Stuart and Delbhoy. Okay, McLeish isn’t a proven genius yet but , as we’re talking about something which is yet to happen, don’t be too hard on me for using the hard evidence what he’s done already to make an estimation of his future worth. The lack of money isn’t an excuse this season - it’s a friggin REASON!! If our signings are so shite then surely getting us into the Champions League AT ALL was a bl**dy miracle in itself.

    I was one of the world’s leading advocates of the “McLeish is only good for a season and a half/two years” argument. At Motherwell and Hibs he got out when the going was beginning to deteriorate but the argument “what’s he ever won before?” is one that should have been aimed at the Rangers board when they appointed him (and I did aim it at them - big time - I thought Mcleish was a SHITE appointment). It’s an argument which is now irrelevant because he’s won FIVE domestic honours in one and a half seasons - that’s now, at this point, what he’s “EVER” won as a manager and the fact that he’d won so little before was again surely down to lack of funds at Hibs and M’well rather than a lack in his abilities. I mean, chrissakes, what have Hibs and Motherwell EVER won?? As soon as he got to a club big enough, he started racking up masses of pots - and he wasn’t exactly given the luxury of an “ailing” celtic, the way Walter Smith was.

    Genius? Okay, the jury’s still out. A guy who knows what he’s doing - that’s been proved beyond any doubt.

    Throughout this argument, people seem to be forgetting that, at the end of the day, winning competitions is the MOST a manager can ever do in that competition.
11. Rusty 12.18.03 / 9pm

    Eck,

    Thanks for the concern mate. I’m just about managing the strength to keep my head pointed at the screen and my fingers typing. I’m a disgrace to the clan you know, regular exercise, regular vegetables, and no prospect of heart disease in the near future. I’m ashamed to show my pasty face in polite company!

    And delbhoy, I applaud your valiant efforts to give O’Neill, Douglas, Hedman and the 13/14 year olds a bit of a kicking just for me. Hands up, I apologise for any offence caused.

    Now, in the spirit of goodwill that we’re all looking for, I’ll look out for you adding something positive about Rangers, hell, maybe even McLeish! I know we might have to wait a bit for the Gers to do something worthy of anyone’s praise, but if he does lift his sixth successive domestic trophy as you suggest he might, maybe you could give a “well done!”, just for me? And maybe, just once mind, without your favourite digs at his long-term stickability, or suggesting that another McLeish success is somehow a “silver lining” for celtic. Cheers!
12. Charles 12.19.03 / 8am

    Eck, what would you do with your spare time if I didn’t write in?
13. Fat Eck - your Charles-obsessed Editor 12.19.03 / 2pm

    Charles, I’d have watched the Hibs-Sellik game!!!

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